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America has gone full nazi at this point,
- you have the SS, i mean ICE police
- you have Auschwitz camp in another country, I mean el Salvador
- courts have no power anymore, supreme court works for trump
- congress is in on it
- the richest guy in the world is making nazi salutes
what else is there ? They will even make a deal with russia to divide ukraine, just like stalin and hitler did with poland.
And the complete absurdity of Trump’s SCOTUS voting 9-0 for returning him home and Trump just said nah…
Not just that, his press secretary claimed that the supreme court voted in their favor! I know they lie blatantly all the time but this was surprising even for them.
Almost like he’s never had a consequence and…he’s actually right on this one. No one will do anything about it.
Aliens will come here and ask “oh so you all bow to them because they can breathe acid and are resistant to small arms fire?” and we’ll look them in their faces and say “no, they’re actually pretty average and some are shockingly unhealthy and weak. Pretty much all their power is comes directly from what we give them for money, as they aren’t even particularly clever. We just…I dunno, can’t? I guess?”
“Why does Ross, the largest friend, not simply eat the other friends?”
It’s been lost in the excitement, but before the presidency, one of the concerns about a second Donald Trump presidency was that the US supreme court had ruled, not long prior, that the President just has immunity against criminal prosecution for some things.
It would hardly be a stretch to push that into no-one can do anything about it, because it’s legally permissable, as long as he does it officially.
Not a lawyer, let alone an American Federal one, but I am rather curious if that immunity could extend to just outright ignoring parts of the legal system. Contempt of Court might well be unenforceable because of it, so the court system is basically toothless where the presidency is concerned.
You know, back during WWII, at least we had Japanese internment camps on good ol’ American soil. Now, we’re outsourcing everything! Even our prison colonies!
Shame.
It’s not a slave labor camp. It’s a concentration camp. That dude is probably dead now. Call your representatives ASAP if you live in the US. Trump must be deposed and arrested. Same with his fucking Goebbels wannabe, Pam Bondi, and Propaganda Barbie the second.
So we are all now sheep that can be plucked up and sent away to a private for-profit prison. That is the definitive end to freedom as a United States citizen. Neat Republicans. Fucking swell.
What were you expecting from fascism? Or did you just find out that trump is a fascist?
Don’t forget Miller in this
That’s certainly who Goebbels wannabe is referring to.
Will you stop posting shit claiming he was accidentally deported? He was deported intentionally. The government lawyer who argued in court that the government had deported Garcia by mistake has since been fired. Stephen Miller himself said that “There was no mistake”. They are deporting whoever they can get their hands on.
He wasn’t deported, he was kidnapped and sent to a concentration camp.
That’s called a deportation though: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/deportations
til deportations aren’t just sending them to a different country, and out-of-the-country camps count as deportating (not sarcasm, I seriouslly didn’t know that)
That’s because it’s bullshit to use the same term for both completely different things
It’s a strategy to call it that
In this case being more verbose makes sense. The current public-knowledge definition doesn’t cover this case, so it makes sense to describe exactly what happened.
The Trump administration said in court filings he was accidentally deported.
That accident was because they are deporting whoever they can get their hands on.
Did 2 judges deem him to be MS13? Because if they did I’m getting Rittenhouse vibes over this. Dems jumping up and down/flooding the internet by calling him (Rittenhouse) a murderer. The law is clear, as dumb and idiotic as Rittenhouse was, someone pointed a gun at someone who was also armed. He defended himself. But Dems were in so deep they were acting like brainwashed Republicans. This may end up similar. Dems are in too deep, soaking up post after post telling them he was never part of MS13 and are too arrogant to admit they were wrong.
Congratulations!
Oh, my sides. That is a great award.
And yet you have added nothing to the conversation. Well done alekwithak
You’ve already spouted so much blatant misinformation it’s clear you only absorb what conforms to your fucked up worldview. I’ve wasted enough time arguing with people who don’t care about facts and reality. Now I just give them silly awards and move on, and it is just as productive.
Thanks for the rebuttal
You’ve actually subtracted from the conversation by spreading false information that the rest of us have to go and correct.
Wanna know the difference between Abrego Garcia and Rittenhouse?
I’ll give you a hint: One of them was afforded due process.
Here’s another thing that you might not know. Being a member of a gang is not illegal in and of itself (freedom of association). If it was, the KKK and the Proud Boys and Patriot Front and all those other chud gangs wouldn’t be allowed to exist. So it doesn’t matter one iota if Abrego Garcia was a member of MS-13 or not. The only thing that matters in terms of deporting him are his legal residence status, and his criminal record. And guess what? He was here legally, having been given “withholding of removal” status by an immigration judge, and he has no criminal record.
I thought MS 13 was deemed an international terrorist org? The others you mentioned are not. If this happened retrospectively in Kilmars case then I believe it would make his deportation illegal.
So I had to look it up, and apparently Trump signed an EO on February 25th designating MS-13 as a “Foreign Terrorist Organization”, which makes no sense because it’s an American gang.
But that doesn’t matter, because on March 15th Abrego Garcia was deported without ever having been proven to be a member of MS-13. No presumption of innocence, no charges filed, no access to a lawyer, no chance to ever argue his innocence in a court of law. You know, that whole “due process” thing that we used to care about.
Regardless of what you think of this man, his rights were violated. That means your rights were also violated, because if the rights of the US Constitution don’t apply to everyone, then they don’t apply to anyone.
I thought it was a Mexican gang? Isn’t it similar to what bush and obama did with sending terrorists to Guatemala?
Do you mean Guantanamo? Yeah, it’s similar, and just as repulsive and illegal. In fact, what they did set the precedent for what Trump is doing.
Do you want to see the court transcripts showing that he was never in the state that the person accusing him of being a gang member said he was in? Or the court ruling that said he wasn’t a gang member?
When you read the 5th amendment do you skip the “No person” section?
But, hey, I’ve been living in terror because of this perhaps or perhaps-not even real “gang”, that hardly anyone has ever heard of, and I’d bet money less than 0.01% of MAGAs would even recognize the name of. It’d all just about cruelty and pushing slowly further and further into naziesque racist control.
I’m not disagreeing or agreeing I’m just pointing out the issues with each narrative and don’t want to be sucked into another embarrassing false narrative by the Dems. One side is saying he was MS13 and a duel citizen and the other is suggesting he was not MS13. If he was not in the state, that doesn’t disprove he was MS13, which as far as I can tell is what this is all hinging on. Legally speaking though it is on the judge to show sufficient evidence for their ruling. If they couldn’t get the state he was in right that does call into question the rest of his judgement about him being MS13.
INAL but no person would apply only to US citizens? Kilmar being a duel citizen is where it gets grey?
Can you show one source claiming he was a dual citizen? You are literally the first person I’ve seen make that claim.
You fundamentally misunderstand the state-gang claim. One person said he was in the gang when he was in the other state. Except he has never been to that state. That’s one of the reasons a judge found the claim he was in the gang by be completely baseless. A judge. The judge that reviewed all the evidence.
Nine Supreme Court justices, the president, and the lawyers representing the president all agreed that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was here legally and was illegally deported without due process. Yet people who can barely pass a Turing test know more than these experts and came to a different conclusion.
No person means no person. Citizen or otherwise. The Constitution doesn’t grant rights. It assumes they are inalienable to all people and established rules telling the government they couldn’t take them away. This is constitutional law 101. Everyone gets due process. Citizen or otherwise. Because the alternative was the road to tyranny.
Thanks for that. The only sources are from White House officials and Pam Bondi. I know they’re very low credibility sources but that is the only place this argument is coming from and unfortunately the only group of people who have control over the situation.
As for the constitution, i don’t think it can legally cover non us citizens defining “persons”. Persons inside the country though yes. Trump and his crackpot team I believe are arguing that because he’s no longer in the country that he doesn’t get covered by the constitution. Ridiculous I know. I suppose it’s like murdering someone and saying they don’t have rights because they are dead and only living people have rights.
The only sources are from White House officials and Pam Bondi.
Oh. Oh no.
another embarrassing false narrative by the Dems.
Rittenhouse got due process, as much as I and many others regret the jury’s verdict.
Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia got no due process, so no judge nor jury got to cast a verdict on the Trump Administration’s claims. Instead, Trump acted as judge, jury, and executioner by sending Garcia to El Salvador when we knew he obtained a withholding of removal specifically for that country in 2019.
Even if the narratives were false, in Garcia’s case, Trump is removing your rights. That alone should be enough to pay attention and disapprove of Trump’s actions.
he was MS13
He was not. He immigrated to the US without proper documentation in 2011 at the age of 16 to escape gangs in El Salvador. Why would you try to escape gangs if you were part of one?
a duel citizen
He was not a dual citizen. Garcia has citizenship in El Salvador, but received a withholding of removal status in the US, an alternative to asylum. He was a legal resident of the US, and a legal citizen of El Salvador.
he was not MS13
This is true.
that doesn’t disprove he was MS13
No evidence was presented in immigration court that Garcia was part of MS-13. Instead, hearsay from a police officer (who later was found to supply confidential information to an escort, breaking his oath as a cop) and a anonymous informant (who said Garcia was in a NYC MS-13 gang, when Garcia lived in Maryland, not NYC) were deemed good enough for the immigration court. Neither the police officer nor informant were allowed to be cross-examined at the time, so we have no idea if these are lies or not. The judge didn’t allow it.
it is on the judge to show sufficient evidence for their ruling.
Do you mean it is on the lawyers accusing Garcia to show sufficient evidence? The judge doesn’t show evidence in a trial… They rule on the evidence…
does call into question the rest of his judgement about him being MS13
As it should. The entire thing was a sham.
no person would apply only to US citizens?
This sentence does not make any sense.
Kilmar being a duel citizen
Again, Garcia was not a dual citizen. He was a legal resident of the US as afforded by a withholding of removal verdict, and a legal citizen of El Salvador.
Please for the love of Truth educate yourself before speaking nonsense on the internet. You literally have Chrome or Firefox at your fingertips.
No due process. And no matter what the right wing hate machine is telling you, no, he’s never been in MS13. He had asylum and non deportation orders precisely because a judge wanted to protect him from MS13.
Ok thanks. This whole thing hinges on him being in MS13 so hopefully the proof of this can get out there
This whole thing hinges on him being in MS13 so hopefully the proof of this can get out there
The entire point is to send people to death camps without due process. It’s the only reason you’re supporting it.
Quite a leap. Good luck to you I guess
Then let me break it down into tiny fash-sized chunks for you.
El Salvador is operating a death camp.
Trump is sending people there without due process, and
You’re supporting it.
How does this not turn his entire nation on him when the message is literally a loud and clear “this could be you and you’d have zero recourse”
Because thats the messaging being sent to you. Social media has allowed propaganda to be tailored to the individual. CECOT isn’t going viral on Truth Social.
Did you know Mark Zuckerberg implemented censors for China? Apparently every post has a “viritality counter”. When any video got over 10,000 views it would be reviewed by an Editor in Chief. Facebook is doing this.
Here’s the source if anyone want’s to see. We’re in 1984. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZzxxLqWKOE
Those who are able to fight already do so, those who’re perceptive to fascist’ propaganda are already brainwashed, and the media is broken. Meanwhile too many can’t fight because they’re already suffering too much from a broken, suppressive economy and decisions made by disconnected leaders in the decades before. It’s a fascist takeover almost by the book, and now anyone who wasn’t interested in history enough get their answer for “how could it even happen back then” first hand.
Because fascists want this to happen.
US Senator apparently went there and was refused entry and everything.
Republican fanboys are calling it a political stunt.
It wouldn’t be anything if they didn’t fuck up to begin with.
It was not always republicans but it was always Government. Such an inefficient and flawed system
The lights are on 24/7 there. Bright florescent lights. I imagine at Dachau you might be able to escape in sleep occasionally.
Wait, the top one isnt a photo from ww2?..
Umm, thanks for these images, it really puts it in perspective. I knew that they were fascists and have shown it many times, but here it looks so clear
If you’re curious to learn more, you can check out this video. It is a very interesting and complex issue. It helps to understand some of El Salvador’s history before passing judgement, but that doesn’t of course mean, that this prison’s facilities and living conditions are acceptable. I just think it’s worth learning a little bit about why this prison exists in the first place.
Still, the fact that innocent US citizens supposedly have been sent there is fucking terrifying and should have never happened.
Ummm, first thanks for the info, second those comments on the video are really scary… They seem to promote concentrarion camps… Third, CNN here doesnt seem to aknowledge that it is a concentration camp and seems to dehumanize the prisoners (at least judging from the title)
Yeah. I chose this older coverage on purpose because it goes into the reasons why the prison exists, but if you check out more recent coverage of the prison, the tone is very different. I have linked to the same reporter revisiting Cecot. It is a bit funny how different the tone is now that it has dawned on people that there is no guarantee that all the people in that prison are convicted terrorists and that some may even be innocent.
I still find the whole issue incredibly fascinating in a scary sort of way. It’s good that dangerous criminals are being removed from the streets, but everything past that action is drenched in human rights nightmares.
But yeah, funny how people can think one way 5 months ago when it didn’t concern themselves and now it is a death camp and a human rights violation and yadda yadda.
True. It is very messed up. It’s one of those situations where there is a positive outcome that will look good for awhile, but it will probably not remain good forever, if they continue to arrest people. At some point it will go from violent criminals to whatever excuse they can make to imprison people. And woop, here we are today. It is happening.
I understand why the prison happened and I understand why the population of El Salvador was happy about their president’s decision to crack down hard on crime, but when does it stop? When have they caught enough people? Because they say they won’t stop until every single criminal has been taken off the street and be me that sounds like they will start seeing ghosts everywhere.
And that is still not even touching on the living conditions of the inmates.
Teenagers are also tried as adults, by the way.
Even the Nazi’s provided their prisoners with blankets. It’s mentioned in Night, it’s mentioned in The Men with the Pink Triangle. The Nazis took away the blankets when they felt like being especially sadistic.
After the soup, we gathered between the bunks. The veterans told us: “You’re lucky to have been brought here so late. Today, this is paradise compared to what the camp was two years ago. Back then, Buna was a veritable hell. No water, no blankets, less soup and bread. At night, we slept almost naked and the temperature was thirty below. We were collecting corpses by the hundreds every day. Work was very hard. Today, this is a little paradise. The Kapos back then had orders to kill a certain number of prisoners every day. And every week, selection. A merciless selection… Yes, you are lucky.”
From Night
If I remember correctly they also don’t get even a bedsheet. They just sleep directly on the metal.
I remember hearing about this prison awhile back and it genuinely sounds like hell. I have very little compassion for rapists and murderers, but even they don’t deserve to live like that. I cannot imagine what it must do to your psyche.
If first you enter that prison, that is it. The president of that country is very adamant that no one is released, if I remember correctly.
Fucking terrifying to think someone who did nothing at all could end up in there, but there is probably more than one of those in there.
Edit, I found this video that touches on the issue. It is very interesting.
The thing is these aren’t rapists and murderers. These people haven’t been convicted of crimes. Even those not sent by the US. The Salvadoran dictator just decides that people are rapists and murderers and sends them there without trial.
Only difference is the lack of human experiments.
This is a big part of the Network State or Freedom Cities that are being proposed.
And the lack of such experiments is assumed. Not proven
Can have as much ideas as he wants, we don’t live in 1945 anymore, he has no chance to make them a reality.
Ah, the classic maxim: history cannot repeat itself.
Yes, because we’re very clearly following the rules of law here, and a central American nation would never be coerced by the US into engaging in flagrant human rights abuses.
Dude, they don’t even see prisoners as humans, neither do their lemmings. The US even got a rather recent backstory with torture and human trials. I understand your hope, but please be real. I’d be surprised if they weren’t already making “deals”.
hey dont throw lemmy into this
How small-minded of you.
Hahahahahahahaha
I assume he can’t come back because he’s dead
Likely, since he was fleeing El Salvador before he was deported back there.
The only other option is he was literally sold as a slave
Last year or so a provenly innocent man was executed in the United States for a murder even the lead prosecutor on the case thought he was innocent and worked to get his own conviction overturned.
Always been like this.
Where do you think Copmala earned that name?
She made a carreer of denying proven innocents a retrial since it would bring down her conviction rate.
Or
More than 100 immigrant youth in San Francisco were detained or deported because of a 2008 city policy implemented by former mayor and now-Gov. Gavin Newsom and supported by Kamala Harris
https://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-pol-ca-harris-police-shootings-20160118-story.html
Among other despicable thingsI am aware. Obama was called the deporter in chief at one point. The main thing is that it was also democrats trying to prove that they were ‘tough’ to conservatives in the same way Bill Clinton tried to do that in the 90s.
It never worked. They will always be seen as the party of pansies. Netenyahu and fascists in general love Trump far more because even though the democrats kiss Israeli and corporate ass as much as Republicans, the republican rhetoric is much stronger.
You’re right, all those holy libs complaining about it are just hypocrites.
They get real mad when you call them out on it.
When it’s just the poor and minorities they don’t actually care about they can look away and enjoy their great democracy, but when they get a taste it’s fascism.
Yeah we’ve been on a fucking roll with the murder lately.
Maybe someone should do something about it.
What do you see in this satellite photo of CECOT?
I don’t think it’s a killing place. A place like CECOT which is purpose built, if they needed a secret killing place that was overflowing with that much blood, then they would need a way to dispose of the bodies on an industrial scale. The most likely method would be a crematorium disguised as a trash incinerator. It would have to be close to the killing place because moving bodies is risky and labor intensive. A crematorium or incinerator would have a very obvious smoke stack and would have some gas infrastructure nearby, like a gas line with bleed vents, a tanker-sized LNG tank, and/or above ground valve control areas.look for something like that nearby.
It’s possible that the bodies could be getting chemically dissolved or fed into a grinder and destined for the wastewater treatment plant which is southwest of the prison alongside the access road.
But those are expensive and labor-intensive, respectively.
If you think you see an industrial amount of blood, you gotta think about what the rest of the logistics chain looks like too.
That is well thought out. Thanks.
As of last year, rights groups report at least 261 people had died at the facility: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/el-salvadors-prisons-deaths-anti-gang-crackdown-rcna161327
People die there from violence, lack of medical care, and torture. We know hundreds of people are dying there. They have to be doing something with the bodies.
Chemical dissolution isn’t that intensive. The cartel famously had a guy who just him and his assistant were able to dissolve hundreds of bodies over years in a small hideout in a construction site.
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Not sure… Care to elaborate?
EDIT: I’m looking at someone who did a deep dive on this. I don’t know what to say, I hope it’s not that, but it could be…
We already know that hundreds of people have died at that and other facilities like it:
And those are just the ones rights groups know about.
Just think about it. You throw people in there in horrendously overcrowded conditions and explicitly tell them that they will never be released. Have you seen the photos? Dozens of people in big open cages, very few guards to keep an eye on them. The prisoners in there have nothing to lose. What exactly is the punishment if one prisoner kills another? Do you think a guard is going to be able to intervene in time if one inmate decides to strangle another? Do you think the guards that work at a place that imprison people for life without trial even give a damn?
Just use some common sense. How could such a facility end up anything but a blood bath? That is the entire point of a concentration camp like this. It’s a way for the state to mass execute people with plausible deniability. You deliberately create the conditions where mass death is inevitable and then blame the prisoners when the inevitable happens.
that would be: a lot of blood
What’s the source of this image? Unfortunately with everything else I’ve heard about cecot I find it easy to believe this is legit but this is the first I’ve seen of it
https://maps.app.goo.gl/wH2iWwbEzgCYNxjP8
Unless they changed the satellite image
Oh I didn’t expect it to be on Google Maps lol
Yup. Google. Fucking. Maps.
The majority of these people who were kidnapped by masked men in unmarked vehicles had no criminal record
Yes, and even people with a criminal record don’t deserve to be locked up forever and to be abused.
Slave labor?
They are kept in pens for 23.5 hours a day. I don’t think they’re getting any labor out of them. It’s a death camp.
I hope all those „be careful around windows in russia” jokes made you laugh because this is your reality now.
Bold of you to think I live in the USA. I’ll keep making Russian window jokes, but now I need a good USA one too, hmmm…
I propose: Don’t leave your fridge open in the US.
Has been for a few decades at least, but now the targeting is more random.
The real differences are that the scope is massively expanded and they’ve stopped trying to hide it. Now they’re just doing it out in the open.
I like how this still implies that it’s only wrong because he had a legal situation.
After all illegal immigrants are not really human, right?
Welcome to America; the first successful Nazi regime.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_genocide_in_the_United_States
I thought it implied that he couldn’t be returned because he died.
But the wording implies that the legality of this person’s situation matters for the rest of the sentence, either meaning that being illegal would justify deportation, or not being able to come back after being arrested without reason.
The wording is establishing who the subject of the post is about. Since their name wasn’t mentioned and you knew who they were talking about I can see that it was super effective.
I don’t know who they are talking about, I don’t need to.
And mentioning “legal” doesn’t bring anything to the point of the post, it’s just a side effect of the person’s opinions
I don’t know who they are talking about, I don’t need to.
You are very confident you know what they meant for a person that is claiming ignorance of the topic. Bold strategy, hope that pays off for you.
The term is illegal ALIENS. Makes it extra racist.
The word comes from the Latin alius meaning other
Apologetic much? Dehuminization is dehuminization in my books.
Lol, I made no judgement about the use of the word, merely giving the etymology. I’m sorry you misinterpreted me as defending xenophobia.
From the Greek xeno meaning strange.
Maybe read the room a little before posting. My sarcasm, in this case, is very warranted, but you “correcting” me with an etymology lesson really makes you look apologetic. Why would you post something so irrelevant to the conversation?
“As we all know, deporting someone without consent is only an issue because he was allowed here legally. Everyone else? Fuck if I care.”
That’s not what their phrasing insinuates and I can see your cloaca from all the contortions you had to do to arrive at that conclusion.
Why say legally if it changes nothing, then?
Because a major point of ‘reason’ that the right-wing has with this person’s abduction is that he was ‘here illegally so it doesn’t matter what happens to him’.
This messaging isn’t for you. Its mostly meant to shortcircuit the above.
These little shitty ‘gotcha’ purity tests the left constantly foists upon itself is tiring and the stuff of children. The man the US government abducted is likely dead; murdered by despicable people willing to do unspeakable things to meet their ends. Yet you sit here griping about, what? The way one person, trying to shout back in solidarity against the coming horror, said something slightly askew? I’d think it pathetic if it weren’t so exhausting.
The person in the picture likely didn’t intend it, but qualifying such a statement with “legally” does have the effect of legitimizing the fascism position both in general and regarding illegal immigrants.
“no reason in particular” I really dislike because the reason is racism. He was too Latino for the racist state.
Edit: nvm, the point implied that he can’t return because he is dead.
He’s most likely dead. That’s the reason why they can’t get him back.
Edit: furthermore even if Chunky Cheeto said on TV that he knows the guy is dead because he killed him himself then absolutely nothing would be done about it.
USA, the land of seemingly unlimited guns yet none of you will do anything about the dictatorship that is happening before your eyes.USA, the land of seemingly unlimited guns yet none of you will do anything about the dictatorship that is happening before your eyes.
Remember how America has the largest military on the planet, and how even our local police forces are armed with machines of war and mass destruction. Yeah, every single one of those guys works for the dictator so forgive me if I don’t go John Fucking Rambo on the White House with a repeater I bought at Walmart.
We’re showing up to protests by the millions, we’re using our voices, we’re pressuring elected leaders to stand up and fight back, we’re fucking trying to stop this shit, so honestly fuck off with this sort of reductive armchair general critiquing.
Remember how America has the largest military on the planet, and how even our local police forces are armed with machines of war and mass destruction.
This guy went against a column of tanks with two bags of groceries.
Americans can’t get organised to march with their guns to see how far the military will defend the dictatorship, when you make it hard for them.
So for years we’ve been right about the 2A, completely useless and only there to feed the military-industrial machine, weak egos and gang violence.
He also got disappeared, never to be seen or heard from again. Not exactly the example I’d use.
The question is what is the right thing to do, no matter the personal cost.
By pointing out American hypocrisy through a reductionist view of gun politics in the U.S.?
If you can’t figure out by now that the majority of blue voters are not the ones who were arming themselves… or that they were the ones voting for gun control… what are you trying to say, again?
what are you trying to say, again?
Oh, it’s quite simple, really:
Thank you for your meaningful contribution.
Yeah and he died. Get off your fucking high horse and stop pressuring people to commit suicide in the name of what you think is right.
Oh no, is standing up to dictators and fascism dangerous?
Well better just lick boots then, huh?
It’s not like fascism ever endangered any lives, right? It’s not like we had this exact conversation about “resistance not being the answer, we can’t be expected to put ourself in danger” 100 years ago.
And back then we let the fascist fucksticks get all the way to engineered killing camps. Are we gonna let them get that far — again?
And if you’re gonna say something about me being a keyboard warrior, I’m ready and trained and in the Finnish reserves. I don’t like the idea of having to engage in combat, but I’ll do what is necessary if it comes to that.
This time we aren’t fighting it, because individualism means screw the world.
Lol good luck buddy.
Honest question and I don’t want to antagonise: If it came to it, what would you give your life for?
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Sit there and wait for them to kill you instead. Guns are your only hope. Until you wake up and realize it you’ll watch your countrymen be killed en masse. Possibly your own family and friends. Just because it’s not you right now doesn’t mean it’s not going to be.
Immigration is your only choice
Millions of us are protesting and direct action groups are gaining more support and being more active. We’re slow to the draw yes, and this type of movement should have happened much earlier, but it’s inaccurate to say none of us are doing anything
Edit to add: https://lemmy.world/post/28297299
i think the point hes getting at mainly is that none of the protesting groups are taking up firearms and removing the potus by force along with his cronies. you are not militant enough compared to what is written in your constitution for this exact scenerio.
protesting where the police allow you to is “controlled opposition” and its part of the allowed illusion of potential change. its what allows viewers at home who may agree with the movement, to feel hopeful, and like they dont have to do anything because someone else is already doing something. resolving things democratically will only take you so far with a head of state and entrenched system of control that not only doesnt follow the rules of democracy, but is actively trying to dismantle it.
protest as much as you wish, but if theres no bite after your bark, it rings hollow.
source? occupy wallstreet. where they poured champaign on protestors from high rises and skyscrapers, laughing, and taking pictures as they continued to rob everyone below. nothing changed. not really. if anything it got worse.
Every protest is a sea of organization. Thousands and thousands of people convening in a public space for a cause compels people to think about those next steps. It’s a process of breaking inertia. But yes, these always require a politival mechanism: support for a bill, a race, a party, etc or they will get co-opted by the ruling class.
That’s what happened with Occupy Wall Street, yes, though it still resulted in a major wave of political organization. The movement being ignored resulted in a major wave of disenfranchised people who turned to fascism thinking it would be a viable alternative. But at the same time it helped prime people to actually give Bernie a chance in 2016.
Taking up arms at this point would be absurdly foolish. They’d just deploy actual militant forces to stop you and you’d essentially kill any progressive movement for a couple decades, because they’d be associated with violence and extremism
I don’t think that’s how that works. Historically, peace rarely gets results. Do you think the end of the holocaust came about through peaceful protest? French or American revolution? The hands off protest was marked 3rd largest in US history by Wikipedia and nothing has changed. Black lives matter protests were arguably ineffective considering we elected Trump again. We see time and time again that armed conservatives and police forces freely obtain what they want so much to the point that their most desperate members felt comfortable enough to storm the Capitol and they got pardoned. I think the mindset to advocate for peace isn’t one that aligns with results. We see the results. I don’t like violence, but I know they’d love to inflict violence against me.
History is a very biased sample. When peaceful efforts do work, they don’t make the news, it just becomes the mundane stuff you forget.
I view both peaceful and violent protest to be tools meant to work together. The hammer of violence and the anvil of peace, shaping the politics of yore into something more useful.
Problem is, the media and education in America has solely emphasized peaceful movements, while ignoring or downplaying the value of violence. This is a deliberate effort made by evil oligarchs and naive peaceniks, whose reasons happen to align with the result.
the US itself was a progressive movement built on violence. thats why you have the right to vote, and you dont hail the king. the constitution itself was written by extreme, violent, progressives (well, progressive for their time) also, people rally around (arguably) justified, righteous violence in the US, just look at luigi mangione for example.
also laying down and taking it will kill progressive movements for not decades, but centuries. look at basically all of history. for a long time (millenia) people of wealth were thought to be annointed by god himself. it wasnt until people starved in the face of their greed that violence became the only answer they understood. and its what is largely responsible for the birth of democracy and the shrinking monarchies over time. something trump/musk and co are seemingly trying to reverse. while casting the illusion that you “taking the high road” is somehow morally superior, rather than literally fighting for the rights of your friends, families, and neighbours. dooming them in the process to the whims of a new american fascist monarch.
people have died for your rights, its a shame the american peoples limit for retribution has been watered down to holding a clever quip on a piece of cardboard, compared to the actions that built your country and gave you your rights in the first place.
they want you to remain impotent, meak, and mild. they want you to feel hopeless. powerless. and they want you to think bumper stickers, signs, flags, and liking social media posts are silver bullets in the heart of fascism.
they are not. its just a small piece of rebellion against the forces of fascism. again, bark with no bite means nothing to those who have demonstrated they are willing to do both of those things.
“freedom isnt free, no, theres a hefty fuckin fee. and if you dont pitch in your buck o’ five, who will?” - Trey Parker.
This is a matter of timing not principle. It is not the right time yet. Short of successful extremely targeted attacks ala Mangione, you will be branded a terrorist and rejected and hurt everyone you tried to help.
and bumper stickers and rallies absolutely are critical in building the actual movement in the first place. Even if you do take up arms or whatever who are you going to do it with? Or is the plan to just go out on the street and start shooting cops?
please re read my last comment. i feel like you didnt understand it based on what you wrote. try to remove emotion from how you process my words.
targeted action is key to success. mindless violence towards innocents is pointless. and a shameful waste of life.
i wont write you a play by play, but imagine how you would logically carry out a militant plan yourself, and go from there.
(this is a thought excersize, purely hypothetical, and shouldnt be taken seriously by anyone reading this. there is no organized efforts here, same goes for all previous comments on this subject)
I read it as an ideological speech to take more direct action, something you feel has been lost in today’s political climate relative to history, in the context of my previous comment disagreeing with your parent comment literally saying to “take up firearms” and not resolve things democratically. I don’t know what else you’re trying to say.
The revolution will not be televised…
What are direct action groups are doing? I’ve only heard of protests, which have frankly zero effect on the Trump regime. The idea that something will come out of these protests, that someone will escalate is fundamentally flawed; until you and people like you decide to escalate nothing will happen, and if you want to know what your average American thinks of escalation go out on April 19th and ask people around you what they think about participating in a general strike within the year. Like ask 30 people or something, record the answers and see what you’ll get. The situation won’t change until the people of America change it with their own hands; no inevitable march of history is coming to save you.
I keep telling everyone. Get armed and get trained. Because the war for this nation is coming.
The class War has always been ongoing.
It’s here already just loads of you can’t see it.
Yes. I agree. For decades we should have been fighting.
Well, the problem.on the guns side is that the Democrats spent decades villifying gun ownership, so 90% of the guns are owned by supporters of the fascist fuck.
It depends where you live honestly. I grew up in NJ in a very blue suburb and every male child on the block was out of school during the first week of deer season. Now that I’m older every leftist I know is strapped.
I have like 50 guns. I tell people that I’m so far left that I’ve circled back around on guns.
But the reality is I’m mostly just a gun nerd who also used to be a gun salesman and got a ton of freebies from the manufacturer.
That is a pretty handy skillset. Many people are going to need advice in the years ahead.
Agreed a lot of us far left people have guns we just don’t go around bragging about it
